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A handful of climate activists turned off the flow of Canadian tar sands oil through pipelines in Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana, and Washington on Tuesday, Oct. 11. Five who cut chains and turned pipeline valves and five more supporters were arrested.聽They face a range of charges, including criminal trespass, sabotage, burglary, and criminal mischief.

The necessity for radical change is too pressing for the solution to come from traditional thinking.

That morning in Seattle, Jay O鈥橦ara was working the phones, calling the pipeline companies 15 minutes in advance to warn them of the shutdown. It was not his first experience of a bold climate action involving personal risk. In 2013, O鈥橦ara and his friend Ken Ward anchored their small boat, the 鈥淗enry David T,鈥� in the path of a 40,000-ton barge taking coal to a plant in Massachusetts in what has famously been called the 鈥渓obster-boat blockade.鈥� A district attorney subsequently dropped the most serious charges against the pair, recognizing that their civil disobedience was motivated by the necessity to halt global warming.

Necessity was also behind Tuesday鈥檚 pipeline shutdown by activist group Climate Direct Action, O鈥橦ara said, pointing to research that shows we cannot remain under the Paris agreement鈥檚 global warming limit of 2 degrees Celsius if we burn the fossil fuel reserves we already have.

The success of the lobster-boat blockade and his work on climate action, from lobbying in D.C. to working with transformational student groups and making a pipeline pilgrimage, has made O鈥橦ara stand out as one of the young leaders of the climate movement. However, he wouldn鈥檛 use that description himself; he expresses discomfort with ego-driven action or scenarios where he鈥檚 treated as a hero.

But as a co-founder of the Climate Disobedience Center, O鈥橦ara works in the highly visible area of direct action that dramatically confronts the corporate and governmental interests behind global warming. It鈥檚 an area of the movement that can ask a lot of participants, but one many see as crucial.

For guidance and sustenance in the work, O鈥橦ara draws on his deep Quaker faith. At a faith and climate action conference in Seattle the weekend before the pipeline action, he spoke of his faith as a way to proceed at 鈥渢his time of hopelessness and crisis.鈥� Climate change, he said, is simply too large a problem and the necessity for radical change is too pressing for the solution to come from traditional thinking. In an interview with YES! Magazine, O鈥橦ara expanded on what he means by faith鈥攁nd the value of what he calls 鈥渉oly trouble.鈥�

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痴补濒别谤颈别听厂肠丑濒辞谤别诲迟: 滨鈥檓 talking to you as an atheist, but one who feels affinity for the people of faith at this conference who are acting out of deep conviction, who are acting authentically.

Jay 翱鈥橦补谤补: Depending on whose god you鈥檙e talking about, 滨鈥檓 an atheist. I don鈥檛 know whether there is something out there. All I know is that I experience something.

What I love about Quakerism is that the words you use to describe it don鈥檛 matter.

From the beginning, Quakerism was universalistic. Early Quakers in the 1650s could meet people who were Muslim or who were Native American, and find the same motivating spirit underlying their actions, and be like, 鈥淥h that, we call it Jesus, but whatevs.鈥�

There is a thing, whether it comes in the form of a whisper, or a nudge, or a curiosity, or an inclination, that is internal rather than external, that is generative rather than consumptive.

Schloredt: How does acting on that internal voice for climate action work in our society, where there is so much denial?

翱鈥橦补谤补: Our first job is to stop talking and start acting. I think one of the things that has held the movement back is the big green NGOs saying that the world is ending, and not acting like it. People can smell the bullshit, and they think, 鈥淲ell, they鈥檙e not acting freaked out, they must be trying just to fundraise off of it. So why should we pay attention to that? A bunch of hypocrites!鈥�

Suffering. I think that is the crucial thing. Willingness to suffer generates empathy: 鈥淲ow, if this person is so convinced in their heart that they have to stand in front of that train, maybe even risk their life, it must be really serious.鈥�

I don鈥檛 think our problem with denial in the United States is a problem with Republicans and right-wing climate deniers. The problem with denial is White liberals and middle-of-the road Democrats who have not internalized the severity and magnitude of the problem. And that鈥檚 our biggest block. It鈥檚 eerily reminiscent of what Dr. King talks about in 鈥淟etter from Birmingham Jail鈥� when he says that the biggest hindrance to civil rights might not be the Ku Klux Klan or the White councilman, but the White moderate who says they agree with the goals, but says 鈥渟low down, calm down, you鈥檙e not being reasonable.鈥�

The denier population is only 25 percent of the population. We don鈥檛 need to convince 100 percent, we only need 50 percent to agree with us. Research says that a nonviolent revolution only requires 4 percent or so of the population, because once you move those people to the furthest level of commitment, people on the next layer move a little further out. Who cares about the deniers? They鈥檙e not the problem鈥攚e鈥檙e the problem.

I think what鈥檚 actually going on is that because we are White, because we are educated, we have been told that our voice matters. When we open our mouths, people will listen because we are important. We鈥檝e been told and acculturated to believe we are important鈥攚hich is not true, because in reality, the forces in power do not listen and do not care. As much as I love a lot of things that Quakers did in the first half of the 20th century, I think the phrase that was popularized then, 鈥渟peak truth to power,鈥� is fundamentally flawed. Power doesn鈥檛 give a shit. Like Frederick Douglass said, power concedes nothing without a fight.

Schloredt: Someone in the audience today asked what they could do to help the work of the Center for Climate Disobedience, and you answered, 鈥淕o out and get yourself in some holy trouble, and 飞别鈥檒濒 help you.鈥� What does that phrase 鈥渉oly trouble鈥� mean to you?

翱鈥橦补谤补: Living in accordance with the truth, as you know it in your heart. When you do that, it tends to invite opposition. My faith is that there is some unifying force that binds us all in unity together. And when we listen to that voice, it tends to lead in the direction of forgiveness and forbearance.

So the 鈥渉oly trouble鈥� part is that when we start living in that way, authentically, the empire gets really nervous because there is nothing more frightening to the powers that want control and domination than people who are liberated, because they can鈥檛 be controlled. Inevitably that will invite trouble, and it鈥檚 holy because it moves from that place of the liberating encounter with the god of freedom. That spirit moving out powerfully into the world is not a linear change strategy; it鈥檚 an exponential change strategy. It pushes and pushes and builds pressure. It鈥檚 like a fault line; it looks like nothing is happening, and then all of a sudden it goes.